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	<title>Comments on: My thoughts on software design</title>
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	<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/</link>
	<description>Man bites Ogre</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2352</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2352</guid>
		<description>Thanks chaps :) I may eventually write a book of my own, we&#039;ll have to see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks chaps <img src='http://www.stevestreeting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I may eventually write a book of my own, we&#8217;ll have to see.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2342</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 23:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2342</guid>
		<description>@DWORD:  I absolutely agree!  I think Steve is very well spoken, has sound and helpful ideas and could write a great book.
I was a little sad to see he didn&#039;t write the upcoming OGRE book so he could really rake in some profit, but alas he really is too busy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DWORD:  I absolutely agree!  I think Steve is very well spoken, has sound and helpful ideas and could write a great book.<br />
I was a little sad to see he didn&#8217;t write the upcoming OGRE book so he could really rake in some profit, but alas he really is too busy.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2341</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 22:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2341</guid>
		<description>I am sure this will be really helpful, design is one of my weak points and the moment. I dont have time to read it now but I will be sure to in the morning.  Thanks for taking the time to type it up :).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sure this will be really helpful, design is one of my weak points and the moment. I dont have time to read it now but I will be sure to in the morning.  Thanks for taking the time to type it up <img src='http://www.stevestreeting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DWORD</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2339</link>
		<dc:creator>DWORD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2339</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the read, all good points. It appears I share your passion for designing using a &quot;stack of paper (preferably recycled or, in my case, the backs of unwanted printouts)&quot; and a pen because that&#039;s what I&#039;ve been doing the last couple of days, and it really works well.

In your next life, when you get the time, you should be writing a book. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the read, all good points. It appears I share your passion for designing using a &#8220;stack of paper (preferably recycled or, in my case, the backs of unwanted printouts)&#8221; and a pen because that&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve been doing the last couple of days, and it really works well.</p>
<p>In your next life, when you get the time, you should be writing a book. <img src='http://www.stevestreeting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2336</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2336</guid>
		<description>All good points, but I would add - Express yourself the best way you know how- even with code.

I&#039;m a paper man(and chalk(marker) board man as well) myself, so it&#039;s great to see this under appreciated medium for software design mentioned here.

However, over the past 20 years, there have been times for me where simply writing down thoughts on paper seemed too vague and I couldn&#039;t quite &quot;see&quot; what I was attempting to describe.  So, I needed to give it some legs and get out my erector set, my legos, my ball of clay so to speak which for me is just a straight forward, plane jane, bit of programming that gives me a chance to mull over, further shape and thrash around my ideas.  I use it as an erasable, disposable canvas so to speak.   Artists and musicians do this all the time, they make throw away peices just to help them &quot;feel&quot; their way through a project.  I&#039;ve had some neat &quot;ahah&quot; moments doing this where I just couldn&#039;t quite pentrate to that level of thinking on paper.  I had to see a few moving parts, a few sprockets and gears, giving it life and breath.

Just my two cents and thanks again for this very well thought out take on software design.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All good points, but I would add &#8211; Express yourself the best way you know how- even with code.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a paper man(and chalk(marker) board man as well) myself, so it&#8217;s great to see this under appreciated medium for software design mentioned here.</p>
<p>However, over the past 20 years, there have been times for me where simply writing down thoughts on paper seemed too vague and I couldn&#8217;t quite &#8220;see&#8221; what I was attempting to describe.  So, I needed to give it some legs and get out my erector set, my legos, my ball of clay so to speak which for me is just a straight forward, plane jane, bit of programming that gives me a chance to mull over, further shape and thrash around my ideas.  I use it as an erasable, disposable canvas so to speak.   Artists and musicians do this all the time, they make throw away peices just to help them &#8220;feel&#8221; their way through a project.  I&#8217;ve had some neat &#8220;ahah&#8221; moments doing this where I just couldn&#8217;t quite pentrate to that level of thinking on paper.  I had to see a few moving parts, a few sprockets and gears, giving it life and breath.</p>
<p>Just my two cents and thanks again for this very well thought out take on software design.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2334</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2334</guid>
		<description>Now I totally agree with you :D

My mistake: I forgot to explain that I was talking about &lt;i&gt;online&lt;/i&gt; project where physical meetings are not possible.
In the oge (not ogre) project, I would love to have such meetings. Without them I use lots of chats but uml diagram are easier when a thousand words are not clear enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I totally agree with you <img src='http://www.stevestreeting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>My mistake: I forgot to explain that I was talking about <i>online</i> project where physical meetings are not possible.<br />
In the oge (not ogre) project, I would love to have such meetings. Without them I use lots of chats but uml diagram are easier when a thousand words are not clear enough.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2333</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2333</guid>
		<description>@Steven: I&#039;ve done quite a lot of collaborative design actually (at work the major projects I&#039;ve worked on have had up to 4 designers at once, plus a good number of regular coders on top of that), and my point still stands. If you conceive the design alone then talk about it, take your paper notes into the meeting and scribble them on a whiteboard. If the design is collaborative from the off, use the whiteboard directly. I still say that getting into the UML tool too early is a distraction.

For more detailed design and formal reviews, fine, I agree. My point was that leaping into the UML tool before you&#039;ve got a skeleton conceptual design slows you down, because the most important thing is to quickly evaluate and discard / refine as many ideas as possible, and that applies just as much for colloborative design, since it&#039;s much, much faster to bash through things with colleagues on a whiteboard or scribbling on some shared paper than it is to write up ideas in a UML tool and exchange them. 

If you&#039;re distributed remotely the tool can be useful but then you probably still do each conceptual stage locally anyway, since it&#039;s more likely to be a store-and-forward approach than a truly interactive design session.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steven: I&#8217;ve done quite a lot of collaborative design actually (at work the major projects I&#8217;ve worked on have had up to 4 designers at once, plus a good number of regular coders on top of that), and my point still stands. If you conceive the design alone then talk about it, take your paper notes into the meeting and scribble them on a whiteboard. If the design is collaborative from the off, use the whiteboard directly. I still say that getting into the UML tool too early is a distraction.</p>
<p>For more detailed design and formal reviews, fine, I agree. My point was that leaping into the UML tool before you&#8217;ve got a skeleton conceptual design slows you down, because the most important thing is to quickly evaluate and discard / refine as many ideas as possible, and that applies just as much for colloborative design, since it&#8217;s much, much faster to bash through things with colleagues on a whiteboard or scribbling on some shared paper than it is to write up ideas in a UML tool and exchange them. </p>
<p>If you&#8217;re distributed remotely the tool can be useful but then you probably still do each conceptual stage locally anyway, since it&#8217;s more likely to be a store-and-forward approach than a truly interactive design session.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2332</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 07:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2332</guid>
		<description>All your points are good. 

I would just make a comment about the first one: it is too focused on one programer. If you need to make a collaborative project from the start, you can think the design on paper. But IMO you need to quickly make some uml to &lt;b&gt;exchange and reach an agreement&lt;/b&gt; with the others programers. For that uml is good.

That said you are right that you must not lose your self in overdesign/overdocumentation. Only concentrate on a few (max 10) uml diagram: classes, deployment and a few sequences diagram is enough to make a team work in the same direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All your points are good. </p>
<p>I would just make a comment about the first one: it is too focused on one programer. If you need to make a collaborative project from the start, you can think the design on paper. But IMO you need to quickly make some uml to <b>exchange and reach an agreement</b> with the others programers. For that uml is good.</p>
<p>That said you are right that you must not lose your self in overdesign/overdocumentation. Only concentrate on a few (max 10) uml diagram: classes, deployment and a few sequences diagram is enough to make a team work in the same direction.</p>
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		<title>By: jomunoz</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2331</link>
		<dc:creator>jomunoz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 03:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2331</guid>
		<description>Good read</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good read</p>
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		<title>By: GameDevMike</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2006/07/09/my-thoughts-on-software-design/comment-page-1/#comment-2330</link>
		<dc:creator>GameDevMike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=361#comment-2330</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Steve Streeting on Software Design...&lt;/strong&gt;

...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Steve Streeting on Software Design&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
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