Relatively soon I’m going to have to do some hardware & software upgrades to my equipment here – the initial driving factor being that in order to realistically work on a DirectX10 rendersystem I’m going to have to upgrade my main machine to Vista and buy a 8800 (my main machine is, and probably always will be nVidia based). Yes, I know I can do it using the reference driver, but really, that just sucks and I’d rather be sticking a fork in my leg. I’m hoping to find time to work on the Dx10 rendersystem as a background task during the summer. However, the number of compatibility issues still remaining with Vista (such as iTunes) still gives me pause, although things do seem to be getting better.
Another potential upgrade candidate is my laptop, which is getting a bit long in the tooth – it’s got a Mobility 9700 which was great in 2004 when I bought it but is lacking somewhat now (running Nimble on it was fun 
). If I bought a Windows laptop these days I’d get Vista pre-installed, which would save me having to brave Vista compatibility on my main machine, but AFAIK there are no Dx10 compatible mobile chipsets yet (although I believe they’re incoming, at suitably inflated proces no doubt) so it would be something of a waste of time. Therefore I’ll probably not bother upgrading this just yet. Although, another option is a MacBook, which would give me the advantage of being able to start doing some support for OSX myself, although the starting price tag for MacBooks is still higher than I really like (higher if you count wanting to load a copy of XP on it too – multiboot until Parallels supports hardware graphics), and the iBook is just a waste of time for anyone who wants a decent graphics chipset. I can’t justify buying a MacBook really given the cheaper & more appropriate options (in graphics terms) in the PC space.
Lastly, I’d really like to build a Shuttle box (or similar) where I can have copies of a few different OS’s (a couple of Linux distros and XP perhaps) where I can plug in various graphics cards for testing. I tend to keep all my old graphics cards in case I want to test with them, but I never tend to use them because I don’t want to be dismantling my main dev machine all the time. It’s just too much of a pain when you have a busy schedule to risk incapacitating your main machine, even temporarily. I also have a Linux install on my main machine but I rarely boot into it, for the same reason (time & hassle). So an extra machine I can flit to running builds & tests in parallel while I carry on working would be a serious boon.
Unfortunately all this stuff gets quite expensive, and money is a little tighter than it has been in the past 
Since the vast majority of it is for the benefit of OGRE (my PC isn’t really a games machine anymore, with the exception of the odd game of Trackmania now and then) I’m beginning to think about a donation drive, with funding targets to cover a proportion of the above. The 8800/Vista and the Shuttle box will have the greatest cost:benefit ratio, but there may be some OSX users out there who would appreciate more direct OSX support from me and who would perhaps be willing to donate towards a MacBook. If I do go ahead with it I should probably encourage people indicate their funding target preference when donating.
I basically let the donation system go into hibernation since I started doing commercial OGRE-related work full-time, mostly because it felt wrong to collect money when there were commercial operations going on. 6 months later I have a better idea of how things lie, and as it’s turned out there is a stronger divide between pure OGRE and the commercial work I do than I thought there might be. OGRE itself hasn’t actually been earning anything yet, the opposite actually – as of this month I’ve managed to optimise our ad revenue so we’re finally breaking even on the server costs but there’s nothing left over. There’s always things in the pipeline (e.g. possible OUL licensees) and you never know what’s going to happen of course which is why I’ve been reluctant to ask for donations, but I’m wondering if it’s worth doing now to help cover things like this. I dunno, I always find myself wrestling with my conscience over this – it’s easy to talk money when you’re dealing with pure commercial work, when the line is blurred it’s much harder. But, I guess the community would get a benefit out of this too so perhaps it is an appropriate thing to do now. If you have any opinions on the matter, I’d be glad to hear them.
May 28th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
I have a Shuttle box at home (a couple of years old). That is a major pain if you want to swap graphics cards – everything is SO packed together! Maybe newer Shuttle boxes are better in this regard, but for anything where you want to swap cards I’d recommend going with a good old “standard” tower.
May 28th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
The Samsung R70-Aura-T7100 Devin has an Geforce 8600 chip as graphiccard, i dont know if it has enought power for games but it can DX10.
I see the problem with the donations, but i think if you can work better on ogre with the new systems there will be enough people ready to donate.
May 28th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Do what you believe is necessary to keep ogre at the technical level you want.
Ultimately, if people believe a donation drive is morally wrong, they will not donate, however there are other people who use ogre who believe the opposite
how about other revenue streams? Ogre T-Shirts, for example? How about an online realtime tutorial session with interesting results?
It is unfortunately ironic that OS software has to look for revenue outside of the actual product itself, but that is the life we live
May 28th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Im with John. Get the donations setup, if people dont like it they dont have to do it, simple as. No moral obligation on the users part and no bad feelings from yourself.
May 28th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
On a MacBook Pro side, I’ve just recently (1,5 week ago) bought one. I was at the point that I had to buy a new laptop, cuz my old one was stolen and the only laptop I have is my employer’s.
After looking a lot at HP, Toshiba and IBM (Lenovo actually), I was pretty convinced that I’d go for Lenovo ThinkPad, thou the configuration I wanted was not the cheapest one (higher screen res, better gfx card, not too tiny HD, etc.). Then I started to read about Macs and all that stuff (I have iPod 80GB for some time) and I have to admitt that I got caught by all those funny ads and marketing speech.
Anyway, I’ve gone for a comparision with HP and Lenovo and… well, it’s hard to get THAT kind of config with PC laptops manufacturers. I’m talking about the 15,4″ version with 2GB of RAM. Having found that out I knew I made up my mind and the same day I had a brand new MacBook Pro in home.
And that was just a beginning. But to make it short it’s enough to say I’ve fallen in love with that baby. Bad for me cuz I stopped touching my PC box with Vista (upgraded 2 weeks earlier btw) and actually I find it hard to come back working with Windows in my day job. Macs are simply brilliant. I swear I would do the switch earlier if I knew how great they are. And it’s hard to explain why, you gotta feel it. Maybe it’s because I stopped using taskbar (called Dock on Mac) just because its faster to get things done using quicksilver and keyboard (I wonder how Windows can stick with its Start button for so long… its horrible to keep your Menu Start organised all the time while you have to work and focus on more important things). Maybe it’s because there’s real UNIX env behind? Maybe just every damn app that comes with OSX isn’t crippled to minimum features like it is with Windows (even Vista)?
Well, I now know two things: I should have thought more about spending money on upgrade of my PC box earlier this month, and I should have bought Mac light years earlier. Now I’m broke
May 28th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
PS. Not to mention I won’t ever install any Windows with Boot Camp on my little baby. That would hurt it for sure.
May 28th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
I know it may be a lot of work, but setting up that premium membership system could be just the thing you’re looking for to cover these costs.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Donations are a fine idea. Like Paul said, if someone doesn’t want to donate, or can’t donate, they don’t have to.
The regulars in the forum are well aware that you’re giving up income to work on Ogre, and that work benefits us directly.
I make money by doing contract work that uses Ogre. I would happily donate, or pay to get a “badge”, or participate at whatever level I can afford.
And this reminds me that I once pledged a donation to pjcast and never followed through. I’ll have to take care of that.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:53 am
If you simply state the value proposition – A faster track to DX10 support in OGRE – then we can decide to donate on that basis. I don’t believe ethics would be at question. I would glady donate to get DX10 support sooner rather than later.
With that said, there may be some blokes that say “Why donate for a feature that’s inevitable anyway? ” Well to them I say, “You’ve taken much more than you’ve given form the OGRE project, learn to give back.”
May 29th, 2007 at 5:54 am
A small start-up rule I know: it’s not a shame to ask for help.
In example I’d love to help with some new features and coding (which is IMHO the most valuable help), but due to other stuff I’m involved in I can only watch Ogre growing and wish there is another way to help… like donations.
And that is ethical for sure. (especially for those who are making money out of Ogre).
As a side note, there’s new Services sourceforge feature for projects. Maybe you should consider launching that too?
May 29th, 2007 at 8:30 am
The MacBook’s are very nice, and would help for more support in OSX which I’m sure is something the community would love. Haven’t you already got an OSX developer though on the team?
As for being able to buy new things, maybe the new licensing could help if a company catches on? You never know who may want to use it, I mean it was used by scientists on CNN after all!
(nit-pick: second paragraph search for “proces”, should be “prices”)
May 29th, 2007 at 8:39 am
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I signed up for the Sourceforge services beta but when I saw how it was organised I wasn’t so keen. It’s mostly useful for things that can be purchased on fixed terms, like support, since the buyer appears to be able to form a contract by responding to a service advertisement. That’s not how I do things, I need to be able to accept or turn down each piece of work on its merits. SF also take a sizeable cut from the earnings. I figure I’m better just offering services direct as I do now.
I’m still thinking about the premium memberships although the time to set-up and maintain is a potential issue. I was thinking of that because I had an ethical dilemma with donations (as discussed), but having thought about it more recently, having reviewed incomings / outgoings on OGRE and realising that outgoings have been winning by a margin, even before you count potentially paid time I’ve spent on it instead, I’ve moderated my opinion. I’m still approaching the issue carefully because there’s still an ethical balance to be maintained here but I’m starting to think it can be proportionate to still allow donations. It’s good to be able to bounce that off other people in the community first though.
May 29th, 2007 at 8:43 am
On MacBooks, I borrowed a PowerBook from a friend a while back and it was quite nice, although I was still doing the day job then so I had very little time. The one thing that put me off was XCode being a little obtuse and weird compared to most other development tools, I wasn’t sure I’d end up liking it.
Yes MacBooks have great CPU / RAM specs but the GPU is always lacking for the price. I can get a much better specced Rock laptop for cheaper than that.
Yes, JustinWalsh is our OSX maintainer and does a good job, but it’s tough for him to handle it on his own. There have been occasional offers from other OSX users to help out but they always seem to evapourate within a couple of weeks. Justin is the only one that’s stayed around for any length of time, and I’m very grateful to him for that.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:49 am
I’ve had good experiences with my shuttle box which has both Linux and Windows installed. I haven’t tried a Mac yet. Moreover, I personally don’t think a lot of Apple’s “Windows Boot Camp.” Too expensive, and no support for Vista. Also, the log off/reboot time is quite lengthy.
Regarding the donation drive, I think that you should try to style it differently. I thought that the Ogre Membership idea a few months back was quite good. That way users see some immediate personal benefit(“Neat Badge!” “My own Ogre Blog” “My own Ogre email redirect”). I am sure that either way, the community would be more than willing to help fund Ogre’s ongoing development.
Good luck in choosing a new upgrade!
May 30th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Steve, I think a lot of people are willing to donate for your upgrades. I do, even I’m also tight on money, but $5 from 300 people will do the trick.
I wish you also be able to get a card like ATI x800 to test Ogre on, because it has some unresolved issues under OpenGL.
I would suggest to get several machines for your tests and buy them as parts with small factor cases, so they dont clog your working space a lot. You can get even used parts off eBay or craigslist.org. I even can help you to find parts here in US and ship them over to your lovely island (I like it from the photos).
Sometimes I see companies are selling computers after the upgrade, and the prices are quite low.