<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Open source &#8211; the next challenge</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/</link>
	<description>Man bites Ogre</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:49:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: davidmaas</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-255384</link>
		<dc:creator>davidmaas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2030#comment-255384</guid>
		<description>Fantastic! And very familiar...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic! And very familiar&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin Vilcans</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-255325</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Vilcans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2030#comment-255325</guid>
		<description>Well written, Steve. Open source projects often begin with a programmer that needs something for himself, he&#039;s &quot;scratching his own itch&quot;. Non-programmers may have software that they need to be developed, but they have no means to do so. They may have an itch, but no way to scratch it.

@Mikael Strom: It&#039;s sad if the Linux community have that attitude towards regular users (or &quot;lusers&quot; as they might put it). In my experience, that attitude is most common among people who are better at tech than the average user - they know they way in the command prompt, the config files and the forums - but they are not actual programmers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well written, Steve. Open source projects often begin with a programmer that needs something for himself, he&#8217;s &#8220;scratching his own itch&#8221;. Non-programmers may have software that they need to be developed, but they have no means to do so. They may have an itch, but no way to scratch it.</p>
<p>@Mikael Strom: It&#8217;s sad if the Linux community have that attitude towards regular users (or &#8220;lusers&#8221; as they might put it). In my experience, that attitude is most common among people who are better at tech than the average user &#8211; they know they way in the command prompt, the config files and the forums &#8211; but they are not actual programmers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mikael Strom</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-255274</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikael Strom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2030#comment-255274</guid>
		<description>Thanks for a very good blog.

I think you touched something that is a major show stopper for open source in general, and Linux in particular.

After hanging out on Linux forums for several years, i sense a tech mentality that is quite hostile to &quot;consumer bone heads&quot;. People that press for what is (in my mind) very reasonable functionality are discarded with comments like &quot;well, the developers are quite busy to develop the latest XYZ functionality&quot; (i.e. so go somewhere else and complain), or &quot;all you have to do to get that thing running is just to open a terminal and type in the following 200 commands...&quot;. Linux is, from a technical point of view, a great OS, but from the user point of view, it lacks many very basic things to be worthy a position as a mainstream desktop OS.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I love Linux (and use it exclusively for all our products), but seeing so many small things that most developers avoid to fix in favor of developing “fun” things, makes me very pessimistic that we&#039;ll ever break M$ desktop monopoly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a very good blog.</p>
<p>I think you touched something that is a major show stopper for open source in general, and Linux in particular.</p>
<p>After hanging out on Linux forums for several years, i sense a tech mentality that is quite hostile to &#8220;consumer bone heads&#8221;. People that press for what is (in my mind) very reasonable functionality are discarded with comments like &#8220;well, the developers are quite busy to develop the latest XYZ functionality&#8221; (i.e. so go somewhere else and complain), or &#8220;all you have to do to get that thing running is just to open a terminal and type in the following 200 commands&#8230;&#8221;. Linux is, from a technical point of view, a great OS, but from the user point of view, it lacks many very basic things to be worthy a position as a mainstream desktop OS.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I love Linux (and use it exclusively for all our products), but seeing so many small things that most developers avoid to fix in favor of developing “fun” things, makes me very pessimistic that we&#8217;ll ever break M$ desktop monopoly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: xadhoom</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-255262</link>
		<dc:creator>xadhoom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2030#comment-255262</guid>
		<description>We start facing the same problem with Ogitor. I asked for comments and recommendations and probably help with some icons in the artist thread of Ogre but the replies were very small. At least we might have increased visibility a bit. I have some experience with 3dsMax/Maya/Motionbuilder but still would be happy to reach some experts who review the whole tool. Chicken and egg...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We start facing the same problem with Ogitor. I asked for comments and recommendations and probably help with some icons in the artist thread of Ogre but the replies were very small. At least we might have increased visibility a bit. I have some experience with 3dsMax/Maya/Motionbuilder but still would be happy to reach some experts who review the whole tool. Chicken and egg&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-255205</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2030#comment-255205</guid>
		<description>Yes, with OGRE out primary target audience are developers themselves, so we&#039;re lucky there. And that&#039;s why these kinds of projects tend to be the most successful, because appealing to other techs is not a big leap, and can be done entirely with just a technical team. But it does keep things quite narrow. Of course, it also provides a business model for many open source companies, since being appealing to non-technical people is something you can sell (and for which you need to hire non-techs of course). 

I totally agree that we can always use better demos, which are programmer art, let&#039;s face it. It&#039;s why I&#039;m very keen to keep the Featureed Projects area stocked with content produced by more balanced teams :) In a sense, it does what it&#039;s supposed to do though - appeal to developers. If I was selling an end-user tool I&#039;d go about it much differently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, with OGRE out primary target audience are developers themselves, so we&#8217;re lucky there. And that&#8217;s why these kinds of projects tend to be the most successful, because appealing to other techs is not a big leap, and can be done entirely with just a technical team. But it does keep things quite narrow. Of course, it also provides a business model for many open source companies, since being appealing to non-technical people is something you can sell (and for which you need to hire non-techs of course). </p>
<p>I totally agree that we can always use better demos, which are programmer art, let&#8217;s face it. It&#8217;s why I&#8217;m very keen to keep the Featureed Projects area stocked with content produced by more balanced teams <img src='http://www.stevestreeting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  In a sense, it does what it&#8217;s supposed to do though &#8211; appeal to developers. If I was selling an end-user tool I&#8217;d go about it much differently.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: galaktor</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-255197</link>
		<dc:creator>galaktor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 10:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2030#comment-255197</guid>
		<description>You can mostly recognize a projects relation to non-tech users by having a look at the website. The first example that comes to my mind are 2 IoC containers for .NET, NInject (http://ninject.org/) and autofac (http://code.google.com/p/autofac/). Where the NInject page could even capture absolute non-techers for a few moments, the autofac page hosted on google-code seems rather straining even for geeks. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can mostly recognize a projects relation to non-tech users by having a look at the website. The first example that comes to my mind are 2 IoC containers for .NET, NInject (<a href="http://ninject.org/" rel="nofollow">http://ninject.org/</a>) and autofac (<a href="http://code.google.com/p/autofac/" rel="nofollow">http://code.google.com/p/autofac/</a>). Where the NInject page could even capture absolute non-techers for a few moments, the autofac page hosted on google-code seems rather straining even for geeks. <img src='http://www.stevestreeting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kinjalkishor</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-255188</link>
		<dc:creator>kinjalkishor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2030#comment-255188</guid>
		<description>If u will consider, then Gears of War and UT3 are demos of Unreal Engine 3 and they highly succeed at that.  Great art work can make ok engine look very good to non-technical(who are generally more after the end result).
I agree with steve on non-technical users being indispensible. Just compare the documentation of Lua with Python and there is a huge difference. It is so easy to get started for a newbie with python then Lua, due to lots of contribution to python by non-technical people.


To get non-technical people involved one trick is to get people interested in contributing artwork more and more, as it wil also give them the benefit of showing their talent to wider community helping them in turn, this aspect may be promoted more and featured, with some competetions also,  and getiing intersted people in making documentation better. The end result being more  people involved.
The simple user generally is after end result which can be viewed quickly. In case of OGRE they are demos. More Demos as a seperate download may be also a better dea with featured screenshots.
Competitions are the best known ancient way to get lots of people interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If u will consider, then Gears of War and UT3 are demos of Unreal Engine 3 and they highly succeed at that.  Great art work can make ok engine look very good to non-technical(who are generally more after the end result).<br />
I agree with steve on non-technical users being indispensible. Just compare the documentation of Lua with Python and there is a huge difference. It is so easy to get started for a newbie with python then Lua, due to lots of contribution to python by non-technical people.</p>
<p>To get non-technical people involved one trick is to get people interested in contributing artwork more and more, as it wil also give them the benefit of showing their talent to wider community helping them in turn, this aspect may be promoted more and featured, with some competetions also,  and getiing intersted people in making documentation better. The end result being more  people involved.<br />
The simple user generally is after end result which can be viewed quickly. In case of OGRE they are demos. More Demos as a seperate download may be also a better dea with featured screenshots.<br />
Competitions are the best known ancient way to get lots of people interested.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kencho</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-255172</link>
		<dc:creator>Kencho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2030#comment-255172</guid>
		<description>Agree. There&#039;s usually the perception that non-technical people can&#039;t contribute open-source projects, which is pretty wrong. Look at Mac users who work as designers: They feel identified with their style and tend to contribute skins and ideas to improve the interface. Or the usability surveys of many companies... Open source projects also need suggestions and contributions from end users! :)

@Ciaran: Following with my exposition, I think Ogre is one of the most affected by this lack of non-technical contributors. While technically it&#039;s a great engine, the demos need, in my honest opinion, a huge artistic touch. In other words, the demos don&#039;t sell the product themselves but to tech-appreciators. Some pro modelers, level designers, etc. would be really helpful to Ogre in that regard. And they don&#039;t have to touch a single line of C++ :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree. There&#8217;s usually the perception that non-technical people can&#8217;t contribute open-source projects, which is pretty wrong. Look at Mac users who work as designers: They feel identified with their style and tend to contribute skins and ideas to improve the interface. Or the usability surveys of many companies&#8230; Open source projects also need suggestions and contributions from end users! <img src='http://www.stevestreeting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Ciaran: Following with my exposition, I think Ogre is one of the most affected by this lack of non-technical contributors. While technically it&#8217;s a great engine, the demos need, in my honest opinion, a huge artistic touch. In other words, the demos don&#8217;t sell the product themselves but to tech-appreciators. Some pro modelers, level designers, etc. would be really helpful to Ogre in that regard. And they don&#8217;t have to touch a single line of C++ <img src='http://www.stevestreeting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ciaran</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/07/10/open-source-the-next-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-255169</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2030#comment-255169</guid>
		<description>I almost feel ashamed spoiling such a great post with some pedantry. Almost. ComplEmentary is the word you wanted.

I guess this is less of an issue with Ogre, given that your users must all be technical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I almost feel ashamed spoiling such a great post with some pedantry. Almost. ComplEmentary is the word you wanted.</p>
<p>I guess this is less of an issue with Ogre, given that your users must all be technical.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

