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	<title>Comments on: DVCS Score Card</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/</link>
	<description>Man bites Ogre</description>
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		<title>By: SteveStreeting.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Introducing: SourceTree</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-285534</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveStreeting.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Introducing: SourceTree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-285534</guid>
		<description>[...] to use both fairly regularly. I personally chose Mercurial for my own projects (and discussed why here), but I still use Git when dealing with other projects, and spend a fair amount of time hopping [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to use both fairly regularly. I personally chose Mercurial for my own projects (and discussed why here), but I still use Git when dealing with other projects, and spend a fair amount of time hopping [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-269104</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-269104</guid>
		<description>For completeness, after some work we managed to get the Mercurial repository down to under 100MB and therefore decided to go with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For completeness, after some work we managed to get the Mercurial repository down to under 100MB and therefore decided to go with it.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveStreeting.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; hgsubversion &#8211; dropping old history during conversion (mod)</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-262429</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveStreeting.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; hgsubversion &#8211; dropping old history during conversion (mod)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-262429</guid>
		<description>[...] already posted about my experiences with Git and Mercurial, the end result of which was a vastly increased respect [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] already posted about my experiences with Git and Mercurial, the end result of which was a vastly increased respect [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-261522</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-261522</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the size in bytes - I&#039;m well aware of the cluster size issues that make the size on disk larger - the &#039;on disk&#039; figure is 228MB for Mercurial as opposed to 207MB for the actual data. 

As an experiment to examine how well compressed things were already, I tarrred and bz2&#039;ed both repositories. I found that both hardly changed at all, suggesting they&#039;re both well compressed already - Git shrunk from 116MB to just 113MB, and Mercurial from 207MB to 200MB. 

So it&#039;s not compression, and that also suggests there won&#039;t be any significant further gains during compressed network transfer. As I say, looking inside the filesystems of the repositories the main issue appears to be that Mercurial stores data in a filewise fashion so moved binaries are less efficient than in Git where a hashed binary is stored once regardless of how many folders it has existed in over the history. Generally, historical filesystem reorganisation is less efficient in Mercurial because of the filewise storage, it just shows up more obviously in binaries. Hopefully they might find a way to handle this more efficiently in the future, or at least give us a tool for stripping off old history before a certain date / revision. In the meantime I think I may have to go via Git just to strip off history, which is not ideal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the size in bytes &#8211; I&#8217;m well aware of the cluster size issues that make the size on disk larger &#8211; the &#8216;on disk&#8217; figure is 228MB for Mercurial as opposed to 207MB for the actual data. </p>
<p>As an experiment to examine how well compressed things were already, I tarrred and bz2&#8242;ed both repositories. I found that both hardly changed at all, suggesting they&#8217;re both well compressed already &#8211; Git shrunk from 116MB to just 113MB, and Mercurial from 207MB to 200MB. </p>
<p>So it&#8217;s not compression, and that also suggests there won&#8217;t be any significant further gains during compressed network transfer. As I say, looking inside the filesystems of the repositories the main issue appears to be that Mercurial stores data in a filewise fashion so moved binaries are less efficient than in Git where a hashed binary is stored once regardless of how many folders it has existed in over the history. Generally, historical filesystem reorganisation is less efficient in Mercurial because of the filewise storage, it just shows up more obviously in binaries. Hopefully they might find a way to handle this more efficiently in the future, or at least give us a tool for stripping off old history before a certain date / revision. In the meantime I think I may have to go via Git just to strip off history, which is not ideal.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Jensen</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-261506</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-261506</guid>
		<description>When comparing repository sizes, there are two numbers I pay attention to in Windows-land.  The first is the size in bytes of the repository.  The second is size on disk, which tends to be much larger in a Mercurial repository, as the Mercurial repository stores each of its files individually.  This is contrasted with a big pack file in Git (and Bazaar, of which I am impressed with their 2.0 release).

What definition of repository size do you use?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When comparing repository sizes, there are two numbers I pay attention to in Windows-land.  The first is the size in bytes of the repository.  The second is size on disk, which tends to be much larger in a Mercurial repository, as the Mercurial repository stores each of its files individually.  This is contrasted with a big pack file in Git (and Bazaar, of which I am impressed with their 2.0 release).</p>
<p>What definition of repository size do you use?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-261479</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-261479</guid>
		<description>@Anders: yeah, I actually tried to pick criteria that were of approximately the same importance to me to make the numerical approach sound, but as I say if pushed I would favour equal platform support and &#039;confidence&#039;, which is why I&#039;m coming down on Mercurial&#039;s side. 

As for design vs bugs, this also supports Mercurial over Git for me. That&#039;s not to say Git has a bad (technical) design, clearly it doesn&#039;t, but Mercurial&#039;s overall approach also sits a little more comfortably with me; cross-platform core, re-using existing knowledge rather than reinventing, being simple &amp; intuitive to use wherever possible.

@Face: I&#039;m actually using hgsubversion, because the results are faster and a little better for me (I even modified it so that merges can be ready on conversion), and you can incrementally pull revisions from SVN afterwards. It has a filemap option too - I haven&#039;t managed to get it to do what I want yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anders: yeah, I actually tried to pick criteria that were of approximately the same importance to me to make the numerical approach sound, but as I say if pushed I would favour equal platform support and &#8216;confidence&#8217;, which is why I&#8217;m coming down on Mercurial&#8217;s side. </p>
<p>As for design vs bugs, this also supports Mercurial over Git for me. That&#8217;s not to say Git has a bad (technical) design, clearly it doesn&#8217;t, but Mercurial&#8217;s overall approach also sits a little more comfortably with me; cross-platform core, re-using existing knowledge rather than reinventing, being simple &#038; intuitive to use wherever possible.</p>
<p>@Face: I&#8217;m actually using hgsubversion, because the results are faster and a little better for me (I even modified it so that merges can be ready on conversion), and you can incrementally pull revisions from SVN afterwards. It has a filemap option too &#8211; I haven&#8217;t managed to get it to do what I want yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Face</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-261418</link>
		<dc:creator>Face</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-261418</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your level-headed comparison there, Steve. Very informative.

For your repo size problem I can only propose to use &quot;hg convert&quot; with the filemap option to get rid of those big files. Maybe you can get the size down by using the branch-sort option, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your level-headed comparison there, Steve. Very informative.</p>
<p>For your repo size problem I can only propose to use &#8220;hg convert&#8221; with the filemap option to get rid of those big files. Maybe you can get the size down by using the branch-sort option, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Stodge</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-261410</link>
		<dc:creator>Stodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-261410</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all this Steve incredibly interesting and useful. We&#039;re using SVN at work but I&#039;ve been pondering moving to something else for a new development platform because of its poor merging. Well, I think it&#039;s poor but it may just be my poor understanding based on years of using ClearCase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all this Steve incredibly interesting and useful. We&#8217;re using SVN at work but I&#8217;ve been pondering moving to something else for a new development platform because of its poor merging. Well, I think it&#8217;s poor but it may just be my poor understanding based on years of using ClearCase.</p>
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		<title>By: Anders Elfgren</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-261399</link>
		<dc:creator>Anders Elfgren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-261399</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read it yet (but I searched through it) and just have two quick comments:

I&#039;m sure the ten parts of the final score aren&#039;t equally valuable to you, so adding a weight score to the table might bring out more useful values to go on.

Also, bear in mind that anything that isn&#039;t bad by design, but bad due to bugs, not having enough developer time/love yet, etc, is bound to be fixed sooner or later. Since OGRE will be worked on for years to come, considering future usage is a good idea.

Probably obvious stuff, but thought I&#039;d bring it up anyways :) Going to read the post now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read it yet (but I searched through it) and just have two quick comments:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure the ten parts of the final score aren&#8217;t equally valuable to you, so adding a weight score to the table might bring out more useful values to go on.</p>
<p>Also, bear in mind that anything that isn&#8217;t bad by design, but bad due to bugs, not having enough developer time/love yet, etc, is bound to be fixed sooner or later. Since OGRE will be worked on for years to come, considering future usage is a good idea.</p>
<p>Probably obvious stuff, but thought I&#8217;d bring it up anyways <img src='http://www.stevestreeting.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Going to read the post now.</p>
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		<title>By: jacmoe</title>
		<link>http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/11/06/dvcs-score-card/comment-page-1/#comment-261395</link>
		<dc:creator>jacmoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevestreeting.com/?p=2354#comment-261395</guid>
		<description>If you want to know that Mercurial is working, and not hung, pass --debug to clone/push/pull - they are aware of the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to know that Mercurial is working, and not hung, pass &#8211;debug to clone/push/pull &#8211; they are aware of the problem.</p>
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